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#169718
BAD

Villager vs Sheik ImagenImagen 35:65
Oculto:
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-12#post-18606767

Would anyone like to cover the Villager vs Sheik matchup with me? I fought one a few days ago and had a pretty difficult time. The seemed to keep running away and shooting needles at me, charged when they could, but usually just mashing b, one needle at a time while I was trying to set up gyroids or trees. Gyroid acted as a shield when summoned, but I guess my timing was off, cause I still got hit when trying to launch him.
It was really tough to pin Sheik down, we were on Battlefield, I was trying to it to my advantage with bowling balls, but I started to feel disadvantaged, she always had somewhere to hide. Also Sheik has that neat thing on battlefield where she can sweet spot up smash almost automatically anyone on the left or right platform (where I'd love to grow trees or throw bowling balls).

Also, when recovering, I usually launch a gyroid to cover me, but in this matchup I think I may have got hit and learned to anticipate bouncing fishes. So instead I think I tried launching a gyroid from pretty far aiming for the ledge to avoid stage spikes. Sheik doesn't really have a spike, unless her down-air has good aim, but I didn't worry about it too much.

In the end, I believe my first death was an up-air, and a sweetspot upsmash when I was on the left platform.
I'm just not sure what I couldve done better... focus on a faster recovery instead of a covered one? Forget tree entirely? I tried using watering can instead, as her warp at least puts her in a helpless state, but combined with bouncing fish, and her warp removing her hurtbox for a moment while also getting her to the ledge, it really didn't help much.

What do you think I shouldve done? Or is this like a 35:65 matchup? Is there a stage that may give Villager the advantage? Maybe Duck Hunt?

Maybe I just suck, but I really tried thinking "What can I do? Short hop turnips?" tried, they just back off and throw a needle. "Nair?" I get naired or faired. "Dash attack?" they back away needles or grab. "Cover my approach with a gyroid?" I would run a little in front of it and get needled, or they would jump away as I tried to slingshot.

Needles, needles, needles... What am I ganna do, pocket em? One can come immediately after to even stop me from having it in my pocket! Pocket isn't very useful in this matchup at all. You could maybe stop a burst grendade, but that move isn't really used to often and your reward for pocketing it is a tiny ball that doesnt explode and maybe does...I can't remember the percentage, but the knockback certainly isn't impressive. Still good to know for certain situations. But maybe pocket's invincibility might be more useful? Maybe I should use that more? It may have helped me dodge up-air, up-smash, bouncing fish, back-air. I don't think it could outlast Sheik's forward smash though.

Last edited: Feb 18, 2015

Like in the Sonic matchup I recommended using your melee moves as he's forced to go in with your support of gyroids and slingshots when he isn't waiting for those. But with Sheik, she can pretty much force you to be the one that needs to go in with her needles. Those darn tiny fast insignificant projectiles. No use pocketing em, but they just keep coming, interrupting plenty of set-ups and approaches. I'm trying to grow a tree here! If Sheik didn't have needles...this matchup could be about even I think.
But alright, we all agree gyroid can shield you from needles a bit.

I sadly think the best strategy may be to throw gyroids and slingshots until times up, really hard to pin her down. 
But at least she's really light. If you could surprise her with a bowling ball from a platform or maybe have some great reads... Even play really defensive until the get really aggressive maybe you can grab out of shield and back throw them. And hey, 3 turnips has the highest chance for up-airs, and Sheiks do like coming in from the air, we can even maybe force her to with gyroid, try juggling with turnips!

Feb 20, 2015

*MJG:

The issue that myself (and I'm sure the rest of you) come across is the fact that we not only have to be three steps ahead the entire time but Sheik is able to rack up serious damage off of one mistake or read while our "follow ups" are limited due to her the cool down time on most of her moves. In regards to defensive vs aggressive play, I try to stay at a range outside of mid-range so that I can retreat if need be. Only problem with this is that sheik can also simply bouncing fish around this range and tag you. Speaking of bouncing fish, I'm also sure that a most of us have been in the situation where you put lloid out and a bouncing fish is coming your way immediately. You could try to bait out bouncing fish but there's several problems with this since sheik simply needs to wait for you to send lloid out and then commit to bouncing fish. Unless they already decided in their mind that they were going to put bouncing fish out at that point in time, that's also not a reliable way to net a punish or kill...so that notion is thrown out the door. Without going into a long spiel, I think villager can see success in this MU if you read and anticipate sheik at every corner, which is just not going to happen.

If you are going to recover low, Sheik will simply bair you if your away from the stage or fair you if you have to recover near the stage and if that happens, you need to be prepared to tech. Lloid works well but we just have to be aware of the bouncing fish range still. Just make sure your DI hasn't tanked because I definitely have been caught off guard when trying to move back at the last thing and my DI was absolutely horrid. I try to recover high normally but you we need to mix it up constantly. With that being said...

At certain points, I've prepared to counter an attack on my shield with Up Smash OoS. I have my R set to jump since I have tap jump off and I've been able to connect another Up Smash right after around 20-40 percent normally. The Sheik player has to jump out or they'll continue to eat damage for trying to put out an aerial. I like Up Smash OoS in certain scenarios since it's a way of letting your opponent know that you can't just attack their shield freely and it can possibly net you a kill.

Feb 19, 2015

Villager vs Megaman ImagenImagen 35:65  ¡Actualizado!
Oculto:
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-13#post-18670652

The above two posts are great and you should read those first!
I agree that your tree is pretty darn useless. Megaman never has to approach you. He won't even come there like other characters trying to reflect it or destroy it. His metal blade and leaf shield goes right through so Megamen will be happy to shoot at you and destroy the tree from afar. But hey, you'll have your axe which is great (if ya ever get to use it...). Also it takes 6 crash bombs to destroy the tree, and like you mentioned they come fast and do damage to you if you are too close. 

But your watering can could be great too at times. Megaman has that vertical recovery and fears the bowling ball, so many will try to recover high. Sometimes though, they'll recover high a lil far and aim for grabbing the edge. This is when you can use your watering can. You shouldnt worry about being hit too much, theyll have launched a crash bomb a lil while ago hoping to punish your edgeguard, what they believe to be a jump to turnips, and then theyll have to stay inactive to grab the ledge. This is a great time to use your watering can. It won't always happen, but isn't a really low chance either!
Many Megamen will want to recover high. (Fearing bowling balls cause of their predictable recovery again) Usually onto the stage sure, there you can try and beat the down-air start-up and turnips, but sometimes yeah, theyll wanna land on the edge! So - watering can!

I'd take the dude to stages like Battlefield trying to drop bowling balls but he quickly up-aired up-aired up-aired, I didn't know Megamen could make you navigate a lil maze of tornados like that, but yeah, being above Megaman might not be so great with platforms in the way...

Being mid-range gets you pellets. You can't really grab Megaman or attack with most moves at that range as your grab is too slow for another pellet comes out, and most of your melee attacks won't reach. Another incoming pellet will just stop your dash attack too. Down-tilt might reach and be fast enough sometimes! Sometimes. But because of pellets being fast and constant, you don't really wanna be at that range... If you try to start a gyroid to get past the pellets, Megaman can quickly punish with his slide, the down-tilt. This range... just aint good...

At far trying to launch gyroids and slingshots you'll get metal blades going through your gyroid start-up as well as crash bombs. While Megaman has room to breathe he can throw his metal blade down and pick it up, a metal blade thats been picked up is actually stronger for some reason. While he's holding it he can shoot more crash bombs, and he could also set up a leaf shield which will let him usually block your slingshots and if he's already thrown or Z-dropped his metal blade, leaf shield can really help him get a grab which allows for a few strong follow ups.

I really, honestly, have little to know clue where you want to be in this matchup... Do you wanna play around the ledge maybe? Play ledge games? Do you need a specific stage? Is this one of the few times we'd prefer FD and Omega stages?

Another neat trick to take note of, some Megaman will throw a metal blade on the ground, wait for people to go pick it up, and punish with a shoryuken (Mega upper - aka up-tilt) to kill. Its a Metal Blade Bait. Don't fall for it! Metal Blade isn't that worth it either. I coulda sworn holding the metal blade or pocketing it acted the same as pocketing Pac-Man's fruit before a patch, but maybe not... Anyway, now it really isn't worth pocketing one.

What's interesting about this matchup...is you can pocket almost all Megaman's moveset...but it isn't really helpful! You can pocket a lot of Duck Hunt and Pac-Man's (other matchups I really wanna get around to) moves, but they can't pressure you like Megaman. With Megaman, when you pocket one thing that may come in handy, it feels like another three projectiles are on the way! All I think is worth pocketing is Megaman's Up-Air, Foward-Smash of course, though good Megamen are aware you want this and will just kill other ways (back-air, down-air, up-air, up-tilt, up-smash, down-smash - he's got plenty of options)

What else is useful to pocket... Eh... I wanna say crash bomb can come in handy sometime, but the large majority of the time, you pocket metal blade you get hit with crash bomb. You try pocketing crash bomb you get a metal blade. MegaMan far away are happy to pressure you with metal blade crash bomb metal blade crash bomb, to try and force you to approach, cause as we've covered, approaching from above isnt so great and getting mid-range is miserable.

The only time you're having a good time is when Megaman is recovering to the stage. There you can bowling ball, watering can, or try and gimp with some pocketed leaf shield or slingshots and turnips. A thrown leaf shield can be good to pocket, however rare. Just covers a large sorta area. But even then, Mega can recover high onto the stage most times. You could try and punish with an up-air turnip, but usually so what? He's still back on the stage...alive.

This matchup... is even worse than Shiek... Megaman has such pressure, I don't even know where you wanna be in this matchup, not like you can approach diagonally, even if you could Metal Blade goes everywhere. I really think Megaman shuts you down in a lot of ways and you should try using another character. I might be over-dramatic... but I really think this matchup is totally 35:65.

I am clueless when in this matchup. Everywhere I go Megaman has an answer. Whatever I do Megaman has something faster. I'd love to grab him, but uh...Villager grab, heheh... I'm sorry I can't help ya here. I dont even know what stage to go to, I guess FD? Omega Stages with walls, maybe ones you cant wall jump on like Kalos League could help narrow Megaman's recovery options a bit. Lylat might be good cause of tricky ledges, but... I dunno, sorry, good luck.

Mega stops his stuff better with pellets than fair actually. It's a matchup where Mega should do pellet spam, mix it up with grabs / metal blades and aim for bair or up smash kills. On our side, we have to break down somehow the neutral game to abuse his insanely strong up air combos/kills and superior aerial moves.

Last edited: Feb 28, 2015

Comparing Speed + Range (Range/Length; square cubes of wind hill/drug store omega)

Imagen

Última edición por Mr. C el Sab Ago 01, 2015 1:24 am, editado 5 veces en total.
#169719
EVEN

Villager vs Rosalina ImagenImagen 45:55
Oculto:
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-15#post-18714581
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-15#post-18722257

After fighting with getting my butt kicked by AceStarThe3rd, a really awesome Rosalina, we talked a bit about this matchup. First here's just what I noticed.
No pocketing anything, and using it for invincibility can get you killed with its endlag. But um...could come in handy against passing moves like an up-air as you float to the stage, and I guess you can pocket stuff that falls from your tree. But no star bits, I learned the hard way.

Rosalina's jab is really good...but the best thing you can do is just wait it out, she does get pushed back albeit slowly... thing is it can push you into Luma and suddenly you're getting hit. I'd really respect the jab. However if used on the wrong side, it can have some endlag so I'd try to bury her. Luma can still attack while Rosalina is buried, so try to follow up quick! Up-smash, foward smash, or if Luma is really close, settle for a down or forward tilt.

Rosalina's up-air is also very scary and can be a main kill tool. Try to air dodge at the right time and avoid staying in one place for too long!

Luma is also awesome, but when you kill him, which shouldnt be too bad, a chopped tree could do it! He doesn't have a shield so have at it. But anyway, when he's gone, it can be tough to pin Rosa down. She's quite floaty and can gravitation pull your slingshots. But it's doable! Get near and try to predict where she jumps! 

Speaking of gravitational pull... It absorbs a lot of your moveset including your cover, stage control, some approaches, and even kill moves. It also lasts a bit longer than it seems... Just try to shoot one thing (a gyroid) to bait it and punish. Careful though, it also has a hitbox (your spinning projectile) though not that devastating.

Tilts should be used more than usual and I'd try to stay grounded. Nair can be a good tool that also could separate Rosalina and Luma. Turnips are great too as always. 

Edgeguarding each other is tricky. Villager can recover low and avoid most set ups. Riding gyroid and playing mindgames with the momentum is effective too! Some will gravitational pull out of habit and some will just start charging a smash to get you. But yknow...dont use this too often, they can catch on and go down-air you. Rosalina could get a bowling ball if she's trying to recover from right below the ledge, but horizontally Rosalina can usually just bypass you entirely. You may be able to punish with a slingshot at least!

Overall... You need to play differently with Villager. You can't just throw out whatever you want, Villager can't really overwhelm with projectiles as well as other characters, you need to focus on your melee attacks punishing mistakes. Gravitational pull, Luma, and up-air are the greatest pains. Ace and I agreed this matchup is 45:55 in Villager's favor. 

I think Villager prefers Smashville and Rosa might prefer Halberd and T&C. Battlefield seems like a nice neutral stage.

Last edited: Mar 6, 2015

Rosalina is a very tricky matchup. I actually had another set with another good Rosalina today. Not as good as Ace's but still gave me some ideas.

What's tough about this matchup is, as Ace told me, you have to play different against Villager. Your usual game plan as Villager just doesn't work. You have to be very creative.

I was trying to do my usual gyroid cover to slingshot approach, but whoops - gravitational pull. Now I'm close to Rosa and two characters can hit me.

What's much better and I was even told to do - so even as Ace predicted it, it was just a strong option for Villager, was to send a gyroid and try and get in there for a melee attack like turnips or nair. Rosa still wants to gravitational pull because gyroid will still hit Luma, and when Luma dies Rosa loses some kill options and needs to run for a bit!

I also think using the tree can be important. You must be tricky with your timing cause it can be gravitationally pulled, but a fallen tree couuuld break Rosa's shield and send Luma flying. Even better, the hitbox by just growing the tree can be a powerful attack on Rosalina who is light and often going for grabs. Also hurts Luma quite a bit!

The most important thing for this matchup, in my opinion, is using gyroid constantly, to bait the pull and condition opponents into using the pull when they see a gyroid. Make it like a habit to them. Gyroid = Gravitational Pull. Because that's how you get some important kills by riding the gyroid.
I've tricked Rosalinas quite a lot with this! Riding the gyroid to recover! Gravitational Pull has no effect on it and they can actually die from it. Even if they try to charge a smash you can slow the ride by holding back and attack or at least kill Luma (or at least launch him up for a slingshot follow-up to death maybe?)
Now, this is obviously quite risky though. Rosa's can dip under and hit you with an up-air just like they can when you're simply setting up a gyroid to cover you. Rosa's can also just jump if they expect this and hurry to punish your helpless state.
But...I think that's just how you havta play. You need to be brave, risky, and out of your comfort zone. Smart Rosa's have all the tools to keep up with you and probably time you out too.

I think the most important tools you have are gyroid, turnips, growing the tree, and being able to recover by flying under the stage to the other ledge. Rosa's sometimes to garuntee the kill will start setting things up on one side, and get frustrated when you say "nope" and head to the other. They often can't punish in time either, but you still need a smart get-up option.

It's a really uncomfortable matchup where you need to sorta...break habits and think differently. I try staying grounded and it helps. I try to only use slingshot when Rosa jumps in for an approach and gyroid isn't out or off-stage for a potential kill. Tilts should be used more often. And instead of just having strong options like other matchups you're options need to be a lot more calculated. I think this is a matchup where both characters need to know their opponent well and make great predictions and condition each other. The only difference is I don't think Rosalina needs to be as unpredictable. 45:55 still sounds good to me as both have good tools, but Rosa benefits from rock/paper/scissors situations more often than not.

Last edited: Mar 8, 2015

*Cree: (I don't really have that much experience playing against her but I'll add my thoughts based on what I've played)
- Rosalina herself doesn't have that many KO moves, but Luma can get kills quite easily.
- The main goal of the game is to get Luma out as quickly as possible. If she shoots Luma away from her, ping it with fairs/bairs or come in close with dairs or ftilts. You can also plant saplings and hit Luma with the growing tree for some easy damage.
- Above Rosalina is a bad place to be, her uair, utilt, and usmash all cover directly above her and make hitting her back very difficult. Try to just got for the ledge or overshoot it and recover low.
- Rosalina is very tall so it makes hitting her with fairs/bairs much easier and should allow you to string together attacks easily.
- Gravity Pull puts a damper on Villy's zoning game and depending on how often your opponent uses it, may require you to fight more up close than you're used to.
- Her recovery is long but shoots at an angle (I think the launch angle can be modified but not by that much) and has no hitbox. Try to make her recover low and get in some damage with either aerials of bowling balls and if possible force her under the stage.

Based on what I've played I'd say its either an even 50:50 or 45:55 in Rosa's favor. The key to winning though is changing up your playstyle depending on how anti-zone Rosa is.

Another important thing when fighting Rosalina is to always have a tree up so that you have the option to use axe. Axe is a very solid melee option that you pretty much need because you can't really use slingshot as effectively, and you need more options so you can mix it up. Also one good thing slingshot can do is smack that little Luma until it dies, which I know is what we all want. x3

Last edited: Mar 7, 2015

Villager vs Sonic ImagenImagen 50:50  ¡NUEVO!
Oculto:
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-11#post-18557385
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-15#post-18709875

Now Sonic is faster than Diddy but doesn't have any useful projectiles besides spring, I suppose. It's not useless to pocket either, I've stage spiked with them. But what I mean is Sonic can't throw something at you quickly, he has to go in. And with his speed, he's got the stage control to do it.

A good Sonic will punish a gyroid with a dash attack, at the beginning of a match you're going to want to rely on your melee moves. Umbrella, short hop down-air turnips, weeds, jabs can punish spin dashes with good timing as well. But when you see them starting a spin dash, that's when you can throw a gyroid and short hop fair or bair with slingshots.

In exchange for his speed, his recovery is somewhat more predictable. When launched horizontally and above/close to the ledge, they may want to go for a homing attack, since a Villager might be busy launching a gyroid. I think no matter what Sonic does, all Villager has to do is wait until Sonic makes a decision. Then Villager can punish almost any choice. For a homing attack, you want to spot dodge to punish that endlag, but simply shielding isn't bad either, there's some endlag to punish regardless.

However, if they want to use their spring and are directly below you, you know ya gatta hurl that bowling ball.

However, yet again, if they expect this, they'll want to spring before that and hold towards the ledge, grabbing it without losing any teeth. However, yet again again, I think there's a punishment for this as well - Sonic has no hitbox as he rises (I'm excluding customs in these analyses) so what you're going to want to do is gently push him away with your watering can! The tree nor the axe are really all that useful in this matchup anyway, you're not likely to catch a good Sonic with them. So when you can, plant a seed and use your watering can when the opportunity strikes!
Now, if you're on stages like Final Destination or Battlefield, they can hug the stage and it will push them up to the ledge. In that case, I guess get down there and back air, try to stage spike? There's no hitbox to worry about from him so go do somethin!

As someone said, Sonic is manageable, but when percents are high, he can be tough to pin down and kill. I've been timed out by one, myself. I think you're really ganna want to stand your ground, not waste your time with building walls Sonic can run right through, and really capitalize on getting Sanic off the stage. I think - let him be the aggressive one - he has to be - stand your ground, and push him off the stage to blast zones. Punish spin dashes, dash attack end lag, and predictable recoveries. I think you should really go for stages with walled ledges, many Omega stages like this - Wii Fit Studio, Castle Siege, Yoshi's Island. If for some reason you can't Duck Hunt may be a good stage to go to. I'd fear Sonic's back air, but you can surprise kill with a bowling ball launched from atop the tree or bush. Plus, those walls help eliminate a preferable recovery option for Sonic.

I think this matchup is about 50-50. Even.

Last edited: Feb 22, 2015

No way! Why does everyone keep saying that? Sure he's fast - he's the fastest, but at least before he can run the clock he has to approach and bring his hurtbox to ya! He has fine endlag, just stay near the edge, and off stage you can either punish a laggy homing attack recovery attempt, or turnip and slingshot his predictable up-b. I also recommend walled stages he cant jump off of like Omega Kalos to remove some options and make that - and bowling ball kills easier. Also avoid stages like Smashville or T&C, but instead opt for Battlefield or Lylat.

Player-1 went to a tourney, showed us some nice matches he had with a good Sonic, and also agreed it was even. There's no way its 35:65, Sonic doesnt shut down any of our option or approaches, we just havta be more careful, responsive, and quick-thinking!

I still think it's even. I've been timed out by one, it sucks, but I could've played nearer to the ledge and I think Smashville having lots of space on one side a lot helped Sonic a bunch.

Why would you think it's that bad, 40:60? Spin-dash isn't as unstoppable as we thought. I dunno... Maybe I'm not seeing something clearly. He's got speed and combos, just like Falcon, but that's about it over us I think. What can he even do to edgeguard? Homing attack, forward air? Not ganna hit us. Back-air could be trouble, but it's got that start-up, I think we can usually make it back with balloons or be tricky enough to avoid em. 

His running the clock game is strong, you need to anticipate it. But I say - get in the air, near the ledge, and wait for some endlag. Then turnip, slingshot, gyroid, and make a wall. Here I recommend being super defensive and rack up damage. Only go in when he's got that endlag or whipped out spindash. You can jab that, gyroid to stop it, or shield and punish when it ends.

Alright, well first ya gatta rack up some damage with gyroids, slingshots, and punishes like down-air turnips, jab, or something to answer for his most common approach: spindash. Sonic's other good approaches are dash attack (lots of endlag - only dangerous against our gyroid startup) and run in and grab which is somewhat risky.

Then, he has to approach. He may want to bypass our projectiles with a homing attack. Nair or up-air this. He may want to just jump over it, slingshot, our aerial approaches are better that most of his.

You should stay near the ledge, hope to push him off, and go for the gimp. You may even get lucky with a turnip spike. All Sonic really has besides his up-b is homing attack - lots of start and endlag. Nair is also a good tool. You also really don't need to fear up-b at all since it has no rising hit-box. Totally go and gimp him. Bowling ball and watering can are also nice options.

Now, on-stage, he has lots of damage, but lets say he's up a stock. How do you pin him down and get the kill? It won't be easy. I'll just say we're on smashville cause that's where we were when he timed me out. I'd recommend covering the ground with a gyroid and using slingshot. He's on the floating platform which is rather far from the stage. When it starts floating back he rolls until it gets to the other side and waits on the upper platform some more. But Sonic definitely can't use his speed in the air as much as he can grounded. So gyroid is ganna be quite important. Also plant a tree if he's just ganna stand there - or even just a sapling. Slingshot as much as you can, have good aim, read dodges and landings. Hopefully you can push him off the stage and go for the gimp.

It's a challenge, but Villager totally has the tools to do it. Sanic's got speed. But we have stage control usually. He's ganna be quickly dealing with our active hitboxes if he wants to run so bad. The only reason we have trouble throwing that stuff out is cause he's supposed to be pressuring us.

Most notable moves to punish due to their endlag: Sonic's dash attack, down-air attack, homing attack, landed foward-air attack, down-smash, up-tilt, and a spindash that ends on the ground. Of course players will try not to just throw these out too close, but just good to know for when you have the opportunity!

Moreover you gotta be careful with that dair tho, because if he does it too high, he'll have no endlag xD That's true, I guess if you're juggling him in the air or something. Dair is actually a good tool for Sonic to get back to the ground where he can take advantage of his speed more. I'd try floating towards the ledge, or even beyond to set-up a gyroid as you get back on. He may mess up and try to edgeguard you which you can turn the tables with and counter-edgeguard with turnips, nair, or more.

I guess I was just thinking of a Sonic that hasn't been juggled too high, might go for this as a combo breaker instead of an air dodge to get to the ground. If you can read this though you can punish. When else will Sonic use down-air? Some use it to spike kill, so keep that in mind, but I wouldnt worry about it too much. Some might use it after ending a spin-dash in the air for less lag on that move if you're close. Otherwise, this move isn't used too often, but keep in mind when it's thrown out you can catch it with a dash attack or something.

I know a fun trick is to jump real high, up-b, and down-air so that when it ends you can land real fast with an aerial like nair. When Sonic does this you can just sorta...avoid him. He can't change his direction after an up-b, so going behind him should be fine. If he doesnt wanna dair yet and keeps following you, just keep going, go off the ledge. He won't be dumb enough to kill himself, but now he has to do a down-air or something and with all the altitude he lost you're ganna be able to punish by jumping back on with a back-air. However, most Sonic wont do that. So again, just avoid it. Go pocket the spring if you want, it's surprisingly great for stage spikes.

Sonsa, Mar 6, 2015

Villager vs Fox ImagenImagen 55:45
Oculto:
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-17#post-18826569
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-22#post-19085704
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-22#post-19086460

Yeah his reflect kinda cancels his momentum and only covers his hurtbox. Plus endlag. So constantly be shooting gyroids. It sends back things double the power (and speed? Think Sakurai said so, but I havent seen much speed increase) So really, always be shooting gyroids to bait this like in the Rosalina and Palutena matchups. Plus pocketing a powerful gyroid is a plus too. Plus! There's that insane glitch that if you hit him just right when he's reflecting it's an insta-kill. So really, never fear that reflector, I bait it to land down-airs and pocket my own tree lots of times.

To deal with lazers. Pocketing em is kinda useless. Just send Gyroid, it'll shield ya from em. Or grow a tree as a shield if ya want. Just don't shield or stand there motionless I guess.

Most will use Fox's illusion to recover to the stage avoiding the ledge game. I think if you just stand and jab, it'll stop em. Especially great near the ledge as it'll knock him a little downwards forcing him to use up-b. Bowling ball! Or you can predict where he'll end up and go for a punish.

Fox's up-b (Firefox I guess?) has some priority once it's in motion, but feel more than free, feel encouraged to smack him during that start-up. Bowling ball or turnips, keep going till he's gimped, he has to keep trying Firefox as its his only vertical recovery. Once it's activated though... I guess avoid being hit and just punish wherever he may end up.

Fox's jab lock only works on Villager once he's at about 50% so don't have a cowardly start. Once you reach that percent know that you can likely nair your way out as Fox's need very good timing. You don't have many other options anyway. Villager is good at keeping space though, even though Fox is quite quick, so play the spacing game against the spacie to not get launched into space.

Fox's foward air can also sorta spike if he just gets the first few hits! Prepare for that, but don't worry, Villager's recovery can handle it. As for other aerials, Fox's nair is nice, treat it like Sheik's nair. His down-air can't spike, it's like Dr. Mario's. His back-air and up-air are nice kill moves, air dodge and watch out for those. Nair might help as it isn't exactly a disjointed hitbox and those moves have some start-up.
Otherwise yeah, your basic fundamentals I guess. Watch out for up-smash. Watch out for all attacks haha. Overall I'd say this match is...I dunno... maybe 55:45 for Villager? 
I think onstage it's even, but off-stage, Villager dominates as usual. Fox has pretty much no option but to keep trying up-b at most recovery situations and can be so easily gimped by Villager who has no trouble going deep. And when Villager is recovering low, what can Fox do? Stage spike is his best bet, he doesn't really have a spike. But we can always tech those and quickly respond with down-air turnips and even kill by gimping.

His dumb double jab lock thing won't work until around 50% too if youre worried about that.

just gyroid, that'll stop lazers easy. And then it can even bait a reflect!

If you get Fox off-stage and he's forced to use his up-b, that is, pretty much your stock. Slingshots also work well to tack on damage and push Fox offstage as aerial Foxes don't plan on cancelling their momentum with a slow punishable move, but if they start doing this anyway, switch it up and just punish it with a nair or something.

Not at midrange, which is what you want to always strive for I believe. Baiting works wonders there. Maybe you're struggling because of the range, you're worried up close and hopeless afar! Aim for midrange, and be aggressive, that'll throw em off.

Sonsa, Mar 25, 2015

*Cree:
- he has a reflector that comes out quick but since it's hitbox is short you don't have to worry about being hit by it. Just play smart with your projectiles and always be ready to dodge/pocket anything you throw at him.
- he can jab frame trap into grabs (and smashes?) which allows him to rack up damage quite nicely on Villy. Common low percent combo is jab > grab > dthrow > fair > fair > uair.
- he can get you to high-ish percents relatively quick with his combo game, lasers, and all around quick move set. You can use the tree or Lloid to block lasers. 
- IIRC if he side b's a bit too high you can use utilt or usmash to hit him out of it and lead into something like a nair or uair.
- his kill moves are uair, bair, usmash. Fsmash kills but at much higher percentages. The fox's I've played are good at baiting an air dodge out of me, which leads to a big ol bair in my face so make sure you're not just doing empty air dodges.
- as with most MUs that Villy has, spacing is key. Use your quick moves like ftilt or retreating nair to create some breathing room between you two. But watch out that his speed allows him to come right back in at lower percents.

Last edited: Mar 25, 2015

*Kohak:
I believe that Fox is an impossible matchup for villager. Can someone please prove me wrong.

1. Fox's neutral game is way better than villagers. Close combat is asking to get juggled.

2. Long range lasers will add percentage and put him in he lead

3. It's extremely difficult to get the lead or take it back from fox for reason 1 and 2

4. With proper spacing fox's reflector neutralizes Villagers projectile game. Baiting the reflector then short hop nair is a free shield grab or utilt string

Without playing lame on the ledge of the stage and aiming to time a fox out, this matchup is impossible.

Last edited: Kohak, 08Apr2015

*Mr.Sile:
I'm just going to say what I personally do, as I went (close games) against this awesome fox called Mr.Dugan who has won two hypest tourneys. But I'm a subpar Villager so please analyze this and form your own opinion about what I have to say.

1. As long as you don't get grabbed and use your tilts to keep a good spacing (not camping but stay mid range), you'll be on par with fox. You don't have to fight him close combat. Don't get grabbed and shield his smashes.

Jab is an amazing move that comes out quick and has sufficient priority, you should use it to rack up a bit of damage and stop some of fox's grabs/approaches.

2. If you are camping him out, he'll use his lasers against you. If you really want to avoid the lasers, set up a tree or a lloid to force him to shield or move. (Lloid stops many projectiles).

3. You have many tools to take back the lead and don't worry about the lead. You just have to learn to deal with his pressure. Gimp him whenever you can and learn to counter his super predictable side B.

4. ''Baiting the reflector then short hop nair is a free shield grab or utilt string''. This only applies if you are sitting far away from him, expecting him to fall into your trap. Instead of having yourself outplayed, pocket back the lloid and use it later to apply pressure.

If you let Fox chase you down and reflect your projectiles, He'll destroy you. Keep your distance while using your aerials, d-tilt, f-tilt and don't overuse side-b in this matchup. Keep him at mid-range and don't try to grab constantly because he'll punish you for it.

Even though this isn't the best Fox, try to bait reflects out of Fox. Otherwise, pocket the reflected Lloid and save it for later.

Here's another video from this really good Villager main @PEPESPAIN. Watch how he spaces out Fox with D-tilt and how his spotdodges are on-point to avoid Fox's punishes. Don't try to camp him out. Keep up with him and stay at a safe distance from him.

Lasted edited: Mr.Sile, 28Apr2015

Villager vs MetaKnight :4Villager: :4MK: 55:45 -Guía rápida-
DashA sobre 20%-40% es combo a muerte que lo acaba con upB o Bair. Fsmash sin lag. Kills moves: UpB, Bair, Nair, Fair, DownB, Fsmash y Usmash. Hoo-Haa: Dthrow>UpB (~110%)

*MK tricks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bOnSWM4flI

*Vídeos:

Villager vs Lucario :4Villager: :4Lucario: 55:45 -Guía rápida-
Ataques que matan con rage: Fsmash, SideB, Bair, Uair y B. Cuidado el edgeguarding con la bola de Lucario. Si absorbes la bola de Lucario le matas, le rompes el escudo y tienes true combo Dthrow>Bolsillo (mata a 75%). Cuidado con Uthrow>Uair mata a 85%) y Dthrow>Uair (mata a 100%). Tiene 3 maneras de landear el UpB dentro del escenario: aterrizando horizontal (no lag), estampándose contra el escenario (algo de lag) y el resto (mucho lag). el Utilt corta el UpB (¿el Usmash también?). Evita que Lucario te toque porque con rage sus combos quitan 20%-40% y te puede matar desde 50%. Por eso busca matarlo pronto: Fsmash, Gimpeo o mátalo a 100%.

*Vídeos:
Última edición por Mr. C el Sab Ago 01, 2015 1:26 am, editado 3 veces en total.
#169720
GOOD


Villager vs R.O.B. :4Villager: :4ROB: 60:40 -Guía rápida-
En este matchup la distancia es la clave: con la distancia podemos cubrirnos/coger ambos proyectiles de R.O.B. sin problemas (láser y peonza, aunque es más interesante quitarle la peonza) y campearle para forzarle a él a entrar, no te interesa entrarle. En el juego horizontal le presionamos con Fair/Bair y Giroide, y si intenta huir o entrarnos por arriba (bajará con Nair), nuestros Uair y Usmash le ganan también. El enfretamiento directo lo evitaremos ya que en el cuerpo a cuerpo tiene ataques muy rápidos y con buen alcance (Fair, jab, Dtilt, Uair,...) y con sus agarres nos sube mucho daño con sus combos, y solo lo enfrentaremos cuerpo a cuerpo (con Nair, jab,...) cuando lo tengamos acorralado o le hayamos obligado a entrar. Hay que evitar el Utrhow (>=145%) y el "bip-bop" (de normal sobre 80%-100%). El edgeguard del R.O.B. con la peonza también se lo podemos hacer nosotros a él; si te lo hace el a ti sube cogiendo la peonza. Para gimpearlo puede venir por arriba (full hops, Uairs, Bairs y Nairs) y por abajo oblígale a que te haga Uairs y gaste saltos y gasolina y luego lo gimpeas.

*Vídeos:

Villager vs Mewtwo :4Villager: :4Mewtwo: 60:40 -Guía rápida-
*Mewtwo tricks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diKq-5VgQa0

Villager vs Toon Link :4Villager: :4TLink: 60:40 -Guía rápida-
*Vídeos:

Villager vs Bowsy :4Villager: :4Bowsy: 60:40 -Guía rápida-
Le puedes quitar el mechakoopa.

*Vídeos:

Villager vs Ness ImagenImagen 60:40
Oculto:
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-15#post-18714581
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-16#post-18776996
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-21#post-19068136

Okay, well you can pocket PK Thunder and PK Fire! But be careful, these energy based attacks you steal can heal Ness if he predicts your use of them! He might just be baiting you! If you really want your pocketed PK fire to activate for some reason and can't catch Ness, it'll activate when you hit your tree with it. So yknow! There's that!

Ness also actually has a reflector though - his bat, so you can bait him into using that and pocket your own non-energy based projectiles - tree, gyroid, bowling ball even on stages with platforms!

Pocket has another great use in this matchup though, when you see Ness is going to PK Thunder himself into you use Pocket's invincibility to have him go right through you and potentially fly right off the stage! (Killed with this, it was awesome)

When Ness is recovering he'll try to use his jumps as wisely as possible to avoid using PK Thunder (which you can pocket to gimp him) But thankfully he doesn't have super armor, he can attack, but it can cut his jump short, so slingshot him so he has to PK thunder. And thats when you pocket that and win.

When you're trying to recover, Ness may try to spike you or use PK thunder to pop a balloon or hit you so he can follow up with an up-air. I'd just give him a gyroid to deal with (as always) and recover low. Maybe he'll pop a balloon, but you can still make it back fine while he has PK Thunder endlag. He may just avoid all this and try to stage spike you though - so yknow, prepare to tech just in case and you will live. He could also try to PK Flash, but... we can be creative and quick with our recovery and dodge it. Just don't ride gyroid. Ya wouldnt wanna do that anyway as Ness can reflect you to your death. Riding gyroid to recover high could be fine though! You'll be in a helpless state though so...be tricky in landing.

Ness's PK Flash shouldnt be a problem overall, it has huge start-up and needs a good read. Villager doesnt have a lot of cool down overall so I'd just send a gyroid his way and keep your distance.

PK Fire can be annoying, but it doesnt activate on shield anymore (yay!) and it's got some endlag. You should be sticking in the air anyway for slingshots and turnips so jump over it and punish.

Tree can be good, axe can be good, watering can could be great for forcing him to PK Thunder, aaand you're nair can command space, especially after Ness's down-throw, he'll want to go for 2 or 3 foward airs. All your tilts are pretty great. Another good Ness approach is a falling nair. Up-Tilt this! You can go for a turnip follow up too!

Overall, I think Villager has a clear upper hand. I'd just stay in the air usually, keep some distance, really...respect his shield and grab, don't get too close. When Ness is getting a bit to close tilts are dandy, but his dash attack is good - covers lots of space -so be wary of that. You can shield grab too though! Your back-throw kills almost as good as his! Plus pocketing Ness's recovery is just...embarrassing for the poor kid. But his bat reflecting things real fast is annoying! And he is short. But...the recovery...

I'd say 60:40 in Villager's favor. At least 55:45.

Stages in Villager's favor: Battlefield, Lylat, maybe Wuhu, Halberd
Stages in Ness's favor: Smashville, T&C, FD and most omegas, Delfino

Last edited: Mar 6, 2015

I also recently fought a good Ness in an online tourney and landed two forward air slingshots from the middle of the stage into pocketing Ness' recovery. Fun stuff. Just pocketing his recovery when he has to like you did multiple times is great too!
As for pointers from watching your match:
-I'd avoid going for grabs unless their outta shield punishes or you predict he'll stay shielding a gyroid.
-Also about gyroids, you'd rather launch em slightly in the air. That way Ness can't reflect them and he can't approach you with his nice forward air.
-Also! About reflecting - you can bait them. I see you throw a gyroid and jump when Ness reflects it. You can go over and down-air.
-The stages you went to are kinda iffy for the matchup I think too. Duck Hunt can be good against some opponents, but back-throw from Ness will kill even earlier and the ducks get in the way of slingshots sometimes, while it seems PK Thunder went through just fine. I'd prefer battlefield and maybe smashville. Lylat was also a good choice.
-I might be being dumb again, but the thing that seems to have caused you most trouble is Ness' up-air. Your opponent seemed to like PK Fire and PK Thundering you into the air so he could use it more. Next time you fight him I'd try to stay grounded more, especially when he's close. Have a gyroid launched in the air to make him come to you grounded. Shouldnt be a problem with that Timber Counter sprout.
-Speaking of which, if youre ganna use that, you want it out whenever you have a moment to breath and you wanna stick around it more. Ness kinda has to come to you. He can try and hit you from afar with his PK attacks, but they have some endlag and you have pocket. He wants to get you, especially this one seemed kinda rushdowney.
Good luck!

I also just wanted to let y'all know in regards to the Villager vs Sheik matchup, I fought a great Sheik and it died at 35% thanks to me landing a tricky tree. Some wont rushdown as hard and will wait for it to disappear, but we were on Omega Battlefield, so not as many platforms to run to. I dunno, just thought it would be nice to share and keep in mind.

In neutral it's pretty even. Villager has good tools to keep Ness away, Ness has good tools to approach, Villager may outrange Ness, but Ness can combo and do more raw damage perhaps, but once you get Ness off-stage, if you can catch his double jump and force him to PK Thunder... pocket and that's your stock. That's why I think it's sorta evenish, but then Villager gets that big advantage. Can totally shut Ness's recovery down. Can even combo into this from the middle of the stage! (I'd know, I've done it muahaha)

Last edited: Mar 17, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_E8MsJDjP8&feature=youtu.be

Good set! Saw you at Chikaigi too, good stuff! You seem to struggle with Ness though... I dunno if I should be giving you advice, I'd love to run sets with you, but I think...when Ness tries to edgeguard you with a PK Thunder, you always want to pocket that, at least at the start of the set. That can be the best thing to do sometimes, but there are times I see in this set where it would be better to airdodge and punish with a down-air or something.

Cause when you pocket, Ness get out of his semi-helpless state and goes into his helpless state and usually Villager just can't make it in time to punish that. Airdodging and punishing Ness as all he can hope to do is angle the PK Thunder back to you can be a lot more rewarding. You started doing this more later on and getting punished, so maybe I dunno what I'm talking about.

But also while watching you fight, I just can't help but wish you dropped bowling balls from platforms more, Ness is always approaching, constantly chasing you throughout the set, and at Chikaigi too - you're opponent was actually trying to trip you up by being in the air so much as the commentators pointed out, but I think if you occasionally went for some surprise bowling balls, it could really make them nervous about approaching and even catch em for an early kill. 

Coming back to the stage from the ledge is also super stressful and something I think we all struggle with. Ideally, slingshot to cover yourself, but, when that doesn't work, as it sadly often didn't, no ledge invincibility can lead to your death. It might be best to choose a get up-option as quick as possible, maybe the roll or I think when watching the jump up would have been most useful more often. Ness can be a nightmare... good stuff overall though! Sorry if this isn't much help.

Sonsa, Apr 25, 2015

*MJG:
I agree with a lot of the points made on the ness MU but I don't believe that ness loses to villager. Both characters struggle greatly near the ledge. Ness can light villagers balloons on fire and make it difficult to come back on stage. I try to get back on stage rather than going straight to the ledge. With that being said, you can jump back on the stage and pocket the pk fire if you predict it and if you're at the right range. If lloyd is already on his way and you're recovering low, ness has 3 targets to set on fire (4 if the tree is on stage). Villager really needs to make sure that he or she stays in the middle of the stage most of the match. If you force ness to use his 2nd jump and he's still off stage (or you punished an air dodge and put him off stage), he should almost always die. Watering can is pretty useful (as most of you already know) and I almost always retrieve it once ness is off stage. Ness isn't necessarily fast but he's fast from a villager perspective. Anticipating his speed is pretty crucial since ness' punishes are nothing to scoff at. This MU becomes drastically easier once you take the first stock. Just need to make sure that your zoning is on point for all the extra credit we'll need. Also, should be pretty obvious but don't attack his shield. Free grab or nair. Grab is definitely worse due to his auto-combos out of down throw. I've played with FOW a handful of times and Shaky constantly since he is in my area now. Hopefully I get some footage from the tourney this weekend.

Ness mains like to catch landings with pk fire or they can get pretty tricky and use a double jump at the last second and throw out a pk fire.

MJG, Apr 9, 2015

*Cree:
- One of his biggest assets is his Fsmash. It reflects while also increasing the speed and damage output of the projectile. Try to bait out this with a Lloid and either pocket the reflection or come in with an aerial like nair or dair.
- His PK fire can combo into grabs, smashes, and aerials and is one of his better ways at racking up damage.
- Look out for the classic dthrow > fair > fair > ... This is a great way for him to push you off stage and even get a KO. Nair is your best move in this situation due to its fast starting speed and ability to push Ness away a decent amount.
- His PK thunder can be used to safely combo off stage. It can disrupt your recovery and may also be able to pop your balloons.
- Both PK fire and thunder can be pocketed, but watch out when you use them because he can PSI magnet them and there is little to no ending lag when hes recovering damage.
- You can also pocket his PK thunder to gimp his recovery but make sure you don't go for it too late or you will be hit with his PK thunder 2. You can also use the watering can to move him out of position or off the stage while PK thunder is active.
- His Bthrow is devastating when you are at higher percentages and his Fthrow can be used to get quick kills on walk off stages like the second part of Castle Siege.
- Personally, I prefer a pre-watered to the axe as a kill move, but both are great ways to secure the KO.

This MU can get pretty tough, but Ness shouldn't be able to out-zone you. I'd agree in saying it's in the 60:40 - 55:45 area in Villager's favor.

Last edited: Mar 7, 2015

Villager vs Shulk ImagenImagen 60:40
Oculto:
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-12#post-18635854

Most Shulks will want to start out in speed form and run pivot grab you or short hop and harass you with nairs until they start a combo. This is to keep you from setting up walls like your tree and to bypass gyroids and slingshots. In this mode I may send a gyroid immediately at the start and then try to stand my ground, short hop turnips if I see them run and try to grab, stand my ground until his speed runs out and then continue to space him out comfortably.

Some Shulks will start with the damage boosting effect though! I'd just keep your space, hit with gyroids, slingshots, weeds, and try to jump our or nair out of combos if caught.

As for your recovery, I usually let a gyroid go just above them in case they jump at me, trying to spike, and also as I fall towards the ledge with a slingshot if they patiently wait there to try and punish me somehow else. Riding the gyroid can be pretty dangerous, but if ya really wanna go for it you can do mindgames with it! Not many people know this, but if you hold back as you ride gyroid he'll actually slow down significantly, so you can do mindgames similar to Wario's bike. Get on it, they charge a smash or jump spike, and you just slow down and wait for them to finish or get out of your way before ya get to the stage! You can speed up by holding forward whenever you want.

My biggest problem with Shulk personally are his counters. You can try and bait them, but... Shulks use them on us so much cause we don't really run up to grab anyone. I'd just be careful, definitely keep it in mind, and don't be afraid to grab or something when you see it. You have to respect this most in his shield form, its super duper strong in that form! Some Shulk's will want to counter your tree so you can mindgame them by dash dancing or something to get them scared and counter, and then you can timber. Sometimes you can even just wait there and glare until they panic. Be alert and have good timing as usual!

Pocketing... Pocket wont do much here, but you can hold onto spare wood from trees. Could help with some setups, and pocketing em makes em stronger, like with anything! Im not sure, but I think pocketed fruit may heal you more too?

His smash form is worrisome, but you can run until it goes away reliably I think! Most Shulk's ive seen want to throw out a forward smash as it reaches pretty far, but it's endlag could suffer a shovel from us or just some turnips at least! Dont be afraid to hit em if he's vulnerable, but I would avoid...just getting up close.

His jump form, he can't really run so great as a trade-off, so I'd get some airborne gyroids to discourage jumping and short-hop turnips or short hop slingshots to tack on damage. Maybe even grow a tree, he shouldnt be near you so soon.

Also with his shield form, he's super heavy so you probably won't kill him, but tack on damage! With his weight you could turnip juggle him, and with his slow pace you could actually get easier grabs and harass him with slingshots and other projectiles. But as always...keep your distance, counter should be feared.

Um... all around Shulk is very tricky and can cleverly manipulate himself, but our walls should be able to manage most of those forms! And whatever forms you can't manage, run for 11 seconds!

I'd say this matchup is...even, I think. Maybe slightly in Villager's favor.

The only forms that are remotely frightening are speed, smash, and jump when you're off stage. Speed and Smash Shulk (not so much Jump) becomes less frightening when you realize that his areal deacceleration is bad meaning if he jumps he HAS to commit to that jump. Play it safe until those modes wear off then rush Shulk, his recovery is pretty weak.

Well maybe a little. There I saw slightly in Villager's favor, but just cause of Shulk's very vertical recovery, off-stage as I said is kinda a breeze, and yeah, you can still run and outlast Shulk's unfavorable arts. Plus he's just so laggy. I'd say this matchup is between 55:45 and 60:40.

We really need a matchup chart and links on the front page so this stops happening. Like the Lucina thread (so gorgeous...so jealous) Im open to talking about previously discussed matchups again, but when people are looking for a certain matchup it should be easy to find.

Last edited: Feb 22, 2015

*Makai Wars:
Shulk's weakness to ranged characters is really evident in this MU, not only can Vill space with the Rocket projectile, he also has his ranged fair/bair (which Shulk can easily be hit from with a SH).

I've noticed many a Shulk try to get in with Speed form and a bunch of fairs/nairs, and while these do out prioritize Villager's own fair, Shulks are very committed to the air approach, which simply means we hang out in shield and wait to grab. I haven't noticed many Shulks come in with a dash grab, which is probably what you should do in this MU-- a lot of approach mixups since Villager is very weak to rushdown.

Buster Monado makes Villager's trees easy work, however a Villager can just pull a Dabuz and run away for 11 seconds if he NEEDS to, the same applies to Smash. Smash attacks are your friend, since Villager can't do much about a Dsmash or FSmash, since they both out range everything he has .

Offstage is where Villager shines, save for the rare occasion you knock villager off with a bunch of fairs. When recovering agains villager, it might not be a bad idea to act like Mac and use your counter to return to safety, and if you an help it, don't recover directly under the ledge because Shulk is one of the biggest suckers for a bowling ball.

So if you're Shulk and wanna win, I advise speed form mixup approaches , good Smash attack game, and staying centerstage since Villager wins offstage.

Also respect the tree. 

My final thoughts on this MU are somewhere between 55:45 to 60:40 in Villager's favor.

Makai Wars, Mar 31, 2015

Villager vs Luigi ImagenImagen 65:35
Oculto:
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-23#post-19309389
http://smashboards.com/threads/town-hall-meeting-villager-matchup-discussion.370525/page-11#post-18565221

So he spams fireballs and shields on approach, then I assume shield grabs you to nasty combos. Well I'd say get around just in fireball range but summon a gyroid to protect you. I believe it can take two fireballs, but the start-up before it launches also seems to have extra defense, so likely another fireball. You could also pocket one to let the gyroid progress more. 

While Luigi hopefully has to deal with a gyroid or two, grow a tree, Luigi won't want to stick around. He may run further away in which case, you keep pushing him and do this again, then he's cornered and has to jump over you.

Now Luigi has some nice vertical distance, but kinda poor aerial movement. He's floaty, so you'll get some chances to slingshot him, push him off stage. You dont wanna be too close as his aerials may only reach if you're close but they do hard damage. 

Only things he can do horizontally to you is side-b and hope for a misfire, fireball again, you fastfall a bit and hit him while he's in endlag as he won't stay level to the fireball for long, and I suppose he might cyclone in desperation of landing, which you punish with a meaty down-air.

Now he's off-stage, great, one of Luigi's only weaknesses is his recovery. He may have to side-b which has nice endlag and you can spike, you may also slingshot the side-b and hope to gimp him, but turnips do this too, slingshot if he's just out of range.

And his up-b is very vertical, but I believe clanks with bowling ball, so youd be better off with turnips I think, I dont know, but I believe all turnips have more priority?

And I guess that's it really. That's the gameplan. Push Luigi off stage by beating fireballs slowly but surely, take advantage of his weird movement by consistently pushing your wall at a distance, finish him off offstage. 

Luigi's grabs are deadly so you never wanna be that close, you havta be real careful. But I think...just cause Luigi doesn't seem to have the right movement to deal with getting around such a wall like Villager... maybe this is 55:45? Platforms should help, so stages like Battlefield, Smashville, but avoid low ceilings like Halberd and T&C.

Sonsa, May 31, 2015

*Antonykun:

Luigi vs. Villager is about patience. Don't take damage from slingshots and Loid, make your way toward Villager steadily. Once you get in, you can deal so much damage that you will get the lead. Just get a couple of grab combos and sit pretty at 50%, while canceling Villager's camping attempts.

Now, to deal with him offensively (when he's trying to get to you when you're in the lead)... he'll use Loid + either slingshot over it or run up to shield or dash attack. His grab is laggy so he won't try to grab you unless he sees that you're shielding too much. In this situation I just jump in the air; Luigi's jump is pretty high. If Villager wants to go that high to use slingshot, you just fastfall land and run in to gain space or hit him with Cyclone because he'll make himself vulnerable; his aerial mobility isn't that great so he won't be getting to you this way overall.

Just stay calm in midrange and work your way in with fireballs vs. loids, n-airs vs. slingshots, and jab vs. Villager up close. His best OOS option is n-air, your jab will beat that easily. Jab once on shield, then walk away just a little to avoid the n-air.

It's not an easy matchup but it's not too hard either.

Also, learn Jumpless Cyclone because otherwise you will get Bowling Balled offstage, and that's no fun! (But careful. Don't be too eager to challenge Luigi's cyclone. It straight up eats slingshots, and nair won't do you any good either)

Antonykun, Feb 11, 2015
Última edición por Mr. C el Sab Ago 01, 2015 1:27 am, editado 1 vez en total.

Confirmo :4Mario: :4CloudAC: :4Kirby: :MeleeM[…]

Confirmooo. Llevo Wii U dlcs y adaptador GC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRA4C2YLK7g

Otro que confirma :4Fox: